Another attempt at a comparable call

At MPP, ALL VUL, holding:
K6
T7
KQ83
KQT92
South took a bid from her box and, before she exposed it, she was told "West is dealer".
Because I couldn't find the applicable law, I asked if anyone had seen what the bid was and they all agreed they didn't know.
I allowed South to put the bid back in the box and stood and watched West open 1NT, North passed, East bid 2D which was announced as "transfer to Hearts".
Time for a Comparable Call from South?
Away from the table, South asked me if she could double 2D to show (a) a Diamond holding and (b) values of an opening hand (at this vulnerability).
I felt that she could, so we returned to the table and the double was produced.
West bid 2H, North bid (Stop) 3S, East bid 4H.
Following South and West both passing, North bid 4S which was doubled by West.
This went for -800, so E/W did not call me back to whinge.
During the coffee break, West had a go at me saying the Diamond suit was not the main feature of the South hand and generally questioning whether I was fit to be a Club TD.
So, my merrie colleagues, I am so close to resigning from doing the thankless task - but before I go, please tell me what should have happened.
Thanks.

Comments

  • In EBU, is it true if the bid is pulled from the box, the bid was made?

    If so, the bid stands, LHO may accept it, and if not comparable calls come into play later.

    However, if it is ruled the bid was not officially made, then LHO cannot accept it. Also, there are no comparable call issues because South never made a call. The fact South was going to make a call is unauthorized information for his partner and authorized for the opponents.

    From your description, it appears all that needed to happen was to warn North to not use the UI from South's action. No comparable call issue to deal with and South is free to double the 2D transfer as a lead director.

  • edited May 15

    How and when a call has been made is delegated to the Tournament Organiser under law 80B2e. Usually clubs accept the EBUs procedures, but they are not compelled to do so. The EBU regulations are: -

    Biudding box regulation (blue Book 3ZA2

    ... A call is considered to have been made when the call is removed from the bidding box with apparent intent (but the TD may apply Law 25).

    Law 25 allows for the possibility that the call was unintended/ intended. I assume this means that the TD would allow South to change her call out of turn for another one if she had intended to make a different one - but she must still make the intended call.

    So IFF the club has adopted EBU Blue book/ White book procedures (not compulsory) then the call is made and the rest follows as per the laws.

    If the TD (erroneously possibly) declares that a call hasn't been made (rather than made and then withdrawn) then the rules about comparable calls do not apply (nor the laws about changes of call/ withdrawn calls) - however there is UI of course (the player has a hand that has the characteristics of an opening call and is thus unlikely to be a 4-3-3-3 yarborough.

    Whether a double is a comparable call is thus probably moot, to decide whether it is (or not) would depend on what the player intended to call in the first place - we do not know, so the below is hypothetical:-

    If she intended to call 1!d (showing diamonds and an opening hand) then a double (showing diamonds and an opening hand IS a comparable call) AND (Most importantly) SHE DOES NOT HAVE TO HOLD ANY DIAMONDS AT ALL, LET ALONE HAVING MORE DIAMONDS THAN CLUBS!

    This is capitalised to remind TDs that it is NOT what your hand holds when you make a comparable call, it is what the call conveys to your partner. (Obviously the TD can award an adjusted score under 23C or the equivalent if necessary)

    If she intended to open 1!c showing (at this stage) clubs and an opening hand then a double of 2!d (showing diamonds and an opening hand) is NOT a comparable call, and the usual restrictions on partner will apply.

    You do raise an interesting point though. Her 'opening bid' (if it agreed she made one) does not show any denomination or strength (other than that required to make an opening bid). I could certainly argue that providing the call she makes conveys opening values then it should be allowed - no matter what denomination (or none) it shows.

    As an aside - during the coffee break you should have issued a disciplinary warning to West for breach of BB@B (if your club abides by it or something similar). Your power as a director is virtually absolute: use it! - if west disagreed with your ruling and EW suffered damage, then it should be appealed.

  • @budh9534 said:
    In EBU, is it true if the bid is pulled from the box, the bid was made?

    If so, the bid stands, LHO may accept it, and if not comparable calls come into play later.

    However, if it is ruled the bid was not officially made, then LHO cannot accept it. Also, there are no comparable call issues because South never made a call. The fact South was going to make a call is unauthorized information for his partner and authorized for the opponents.

    From your description, it appears all that needed to happen was to warn North to not use the UI from South's action. No comparable call issue to deal with and South is free to double the 2D transfer as a lead director.

    Indeed so. And yes, in the EBU a call is made if it is removed from the bidding box with apparent intent.

  • Thanks all, just need chapter and verse where it says a call is made if it is removed from the bidding box with apparent intent. Can't be the laws, must be a coloured or non-coloured book? Obviously, if I had a few hours free, I could chase it up myself. Sorry to sound so lazy :-)

  • Thanks bud, no wonder I couldn't find it in the laws.

Sign In or Register to comment.