Double Session

With 16 tables I sometimes think it would be easier as two separate sessions - maybe 9 and 7 tables straight Mitchells.
I wouldn't necessarily want to combine the results by I am very wary of taking on EBUScore and Bridgemates with anything new.

I think it's possible to get two sessions simultaneously on one PC but this involves resetting half the Bridgemates to section B - not something I would want to try at the last minute.

It seems to me that it would be possible to run one session using tables 1-9 and another session using tables 10-16, both section A. This would make life easier but it does not seem to be possible with EBUScore.

Am I missing something?

Alan

Comments

  • I think the software is designed to run two sections simultaneously and that is how you should use it.

    It is not possible to play one section with different numbers of boards per round in EBUScore. You could write the movement as 16-tables with 1-board rounds.

  • If you have 16 tables frequently enough to not want to reset half the bridgemates frequently for two sections, then you can compose a new movement that combines the two sections into a single section, except that I don't think you can then have different numbers of boards per round.

    You might consider the following movement that Sheffield BC has used for the last several decades for 16 tables. It has a single section and boards shared between adjacent tables so that one set of duplimated boards is sufficient, thereby having an advantage over a Web Mitchell. It has 9 rounds of 3 boards each with everyone playing the same 27 boards.

    It is essentially two nine table Mitchells meshed at Tables 9 and 10, with seven stationary NS pairs and 7 stationary EW pairs, and the moves for the moving pairs are:

    EW move thus: 1 > 3 > 5 > 7 > 9 > 10 > 11 > 13 > 15 > 1
    NS move thus: 16 > 12 > 9 > 6 > 2 > 14 > 10 > 8 > 4 > 16

    Tables 9 and 10 are “all-moving” and do not share boards.

    Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live

  • edited December 2019

    I'm not quite sure what it is you are trying to achieve here, nor why you want different sections to have different sizes.

    Part of the problem may be that it seems to me you might mean "sections" when you talk of "sessions.".

  • If you have two section, the TD does not necessarily have to reprogramme the Bridgemates. If the Bridgemates are set to Section=SELECT, Table=SELECT then the players in the second section can change to Section B before entering the table number. My club likes to renumber table at the start, so does not use Bridgemates with preset table numbers. When we do have two sections, I find it easiest when the table numbering has been fixed to go round the second section and set the section and table number.

  • I want to run two sessions from the same PC, both using section A Bridgemates.

    At the moment to change some to B needs action from the Director on each Bridgemate.

    Alan

  • If you really do mean sessions rather than sections, you could run a 16 table Web Mitchell followed by two 8-table share & relay Mitchells, which you can combine into one movement to avoid needing to number them as two sections. If you put the shares at two different points for the two groups, you can avoid the sharing causing too much of a problem. Or you could run the two 8-tables Mitchells as double-weaves.

  • I don't want to combine the results and I want something simpler than a Web Mitchell.
    And I wouldn't usually want to split it 8:8.
    There are two rooms with 10 and 6 tables, usually run as a single movement from one computer.

    It's an example of something very easy with paper travelers but impossible with Bridgemates.

    Alan

  • As I now understand it, you have 16 tables for one session of bridge but you want to split the field into two different sections and have both sections playing different events and not combining their scores together, and you want to split the two sections such that you have 9 or 10 tables in one section and 6 or 7 in the other.

    I'm not sure why that might be at all popular for the players unless there is a special reason for keeping the events separate such as having a Mens Pairs and a Ladies Pairs or if you have one group of experienced players and one group of novices.

    It remains that the best way to score is to consider it as two sections (A and B.) and combine the sections for bridge-mate scoring and have each section scoring only within its own section.

    If you like your bridgemates pre-numbered, as I do, and you don't want to keep changing Section letters, then you might like the method at my club. On Thursday evenings, we have two sessions, one for experienced players (57% SoF) and another for newcomers (42% SoF). We have 20 bridgemates each with a number 1-20 stuck on the top right, but bridgemates 20 down to 15 have another number 1 up to 6 respectively in a different colour stuck on the top left. These are set on Section B. Only if we get more than 14 tables for any other session do we have to change the settings on the bridgemates.

    Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live

  • @16248 said:
    It's an example of something very easy with paper travelers but impossible with Bridgemates.

    It's not difficult to do with Bridgemates, except that you keep rejecting every solution anyone comes up with and you kept saying "sessions" when you meant "sections". But why not go ahead and do it with travelers if it's so easy?

  • Thanks for lots of comments which skirt round my question.

    I want two sessions, both using Bridgemates set to A, so one session starts at a table not numbered one. (I don't want to change the Bridgemate assignments.)

    The answer, as I expected, seems to be that EBUScore with Bridgemates won't do this.

    Alan

  • Think you'll find Alan that changing 6 or 7 Bridgemates to Section B will take well under a minute and solve all your problems.

  • @16248 said:
    I want two sessions, both using Bridgemates set to A, so one session starts at a table not numbered one. (I don't want to change the Bridgemate assignments.)

    When someone says they want two sessions, it is generally understood to mean an event that lasts for two sessions. It seems that you want to have two events of one session each, that are taking place at the same time. This can be done easily with EBUScore and bridgemates and, more complicatedly, with Scorebridge and bridgemates.

    The answer, as I expected, seems to be that EBUScore with Bridgemates won't do this.

    Well, not when you want one event starting at a table that isn't Table 1, and you want to score both events as the same section. What you seem to be saying you seek is unreasonable for any scoring program.

    Barrie Partridge - CTD for Bridge Club Live

  • Are the two sessions simultaneous?
    Is so, we would call them two events not two sessions.
    You want to score two events using one computer and one bridge-mate server with the Bridgemates all on the same section.

    You have to write a movement which has both events movements: at tables 1-N and (N+1)-16. If the movements in the two events have rounds of different lengths, you have to have both events have 1-board rounds.

    When you have completed both events, you need to copy the event to the same/different PSEvents file (using IMPORT/EXPORT in the main menu). In one copy of the data, delete all the names/scores for the high numbered table, in the other copy, delete all the names/scores for the low numbered table. The two copies will now contain the names/scores/results for the two events.

    BUT
    I would suggest that this whole process is inflexible, error-prone, and rather like hard work. Running the two events as separately labelled sections only requires resetting a small number of bridgemates and delivers the results immediately (and the scrolling results can show the two events separately).

  • I would run as what you call two events. To be honest I don't care whether scores are combined or even whether they use the same boards.

    I know I could make the second one use Section B Bridgemates but this is a non trivial option. We have five or six playing rooms, three computers, section A, B and C Bridgemates around the building and sometimes three or four events happening at once. We have about two minutes to see how many players we have and set up the movement.

    Most of our Directors would not be able to reassign Bridgemates or even know the required PIN. I'm not sure that any of them (including me) would have the confidence to set up two events at once with Bridgemates.

    At the moment I often get 16 tables and I use a Web Mitchell. This is not the easiest way to manage two rooms just about large enough to squeeze in ten and six tables.

    Thanks for your comments.
    Alan

    Alan

  • At our club, we occasionally have to run two different sections/events in two different venues because the main room isn't large enough. We meet in one room and then take the top X tables and move them to our second room - they are all competent players and can easily use travellers, which can be uploaded into EBUScore later (the signal from the Bridgemate server wouldn't reach to both rooms, and we don't have the funds to get a second). The remaining section then waits a few more minutes until all the pairs have arrived and can use EBUScore as normal. Even though this is, in effect, the second section, we are only scoring 1 section on Bridgemates so you don't need to change all the settings.

    It's definitely easier to run one section using Bridgemates rather than neither! I also agree that a 16 table Web Mitchell seems a little difficult to manage if you don't have any experienced scorers at your club (it's obviously great that you have such a high attendance!).

    Running two different sections has its own benefits - the only downside is that you don't get one set of results, but then I guess two sections means 2 winners and more happy players :)

  • I'm surprised the Bridgemates don't handle two rooms. We sometimes combine two rooms upstairs with two rooms downstairs for Swiss Pairs - all using one set of Bridgemates.
    This works very well - as long as we remember to reset all the Bridgemates and put them back in the right boxes for the next day ;)

    Alan

  • Oh they can handle two rooms in the same building... sadly the rooms aren't in the same building :)

  • OK, I've been trying to do a test so I can do it the other way.
    Using EBUScore I've tried to start two separate events calling them Section A and Section B.
    Under the Scoring tab I've ticked In Section scoring, but I can't get as far as Launch BCS for both events at once. When the second one starts it kills the first one.
    Using Session 1 and Session 2 doesn't seem to help.
    I would rather know what I'm doing before trying it live with fifteen tables waiting to start.
    How do I run two events simultaneously via EBUScore and Bridgemates?

    Alan

  • You create the two sections, select them both and then click Merge Sections. This will give you a multi-section event from which to run everything.

  • Many thanks. That works OK :)
    Alan

    Alan

  • OK I have done a successful trial in a real session.
    One section of eight tables, straight Mitchell, seven three board rounds.
    Other section seven tables, straight Mitchell, five four board rounds.
    I ticked Multi Session Mitchell on both before merging.

    Bridgemate scoring worked perfectly but at the end it just merged all the results with a single winner.

    I was expecting two lists for NS and EW.


    What did I do wrong?
    Alan

    Alan

  • If you mean you expected one list for NS and one for EW, you just needed to not tick "one-winner movement" when setting up the movement.

    If you want the two sections to be separate, each with one NS list and one EW list, you need to tick "in Section Scoring" in the Scoring tab on the Event Details page. It's not too late to do it at this stage.

  • I ticked Multi Session Mitchell, which I thought meant Two Winners.

    Did I just get it the wrong way round?

    I may have another look tomorrow when I can get to the Club IT system.

    Alan

  • I've looked at my tests at home and can see where I went wrong now.

    I ticked both components but I have to do it in the merged event. That's now looking good.

    Thanks for your help.
    Alan

    Alan

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