Unauthorised Information mid-bidding

The bidding goes:

North / East / South / West
Pass / - / 2D* / - 2D announced as weak, but their partner winces when done so
3D / - / 5D / -...

North has a hand where 3D is sensible if they play strong 2's but only Pass or 4D if they play weak 2's.
South underbid their hand to start with, so is always going to 5D if their partner doesn't pass.

How would you deal with this as an UI complaint?
I'm struggling because there's an argument that no harm was done and an argument that the UI got them to game.

Obviously there's no convention card. That would be too easy. Slapped wrists whatever for the UI and declarer failing to correct the MI.

Comments

  • edited February 5

    @Mark_Brown said:
    The bidding goes:

    North / East / South / West
    Pass / - / 2D* / - 2D announced as weak, but their partner winces when done so
    3D / - / 5D / -...

    What is the difference between "Pass" and "-"?

    North has a hand where 3D is sensible if they play strong 2's but only Pass or 4D if they play weak 2's.
    South underbid their hand to start with, so is always going to 5D if their partner doesn't pass.

    This seems incorrect to me. Most people play that 3D does not invite and may be done on a weak hand. Having underbid with 2D does not make it right to jump to game after partner fails to invite.

    So it certainly seems that an adjustment might be in order, as well as a PP for failing to avoid taking advantage of the UI.

  • I've never actually played strong twos, but isn't the single raise usually game forcing? Maybe diamonds is an exception.

  • I'd mixed Pass and "-" to highlight the exchange and downplay the silent opposition. Don't read anything into it.

  • edited February 5

    @michael said:
    I've never actually played strong twos, but isn't the single raise usually game forcing? Maybe diamonds is an exception.

    Yes, I was thinking of it the wrong way round. In which case, passing would not be possible but bidding 5D would be unheard of. But I'm not sure in what sense the player could have underbid the hand.

    I think we really need to see the hands.

  • Opposite an Acol 2 - the usual negative is 2NT, I believe, and a single raise is positive and usually includes an Ace and a king and is game forcing. "Really Easy Acol Bidding" - Sandra Landy pp EBU!

    Whether such an agreement (in the eyes of the 2 Diamond bidder) is in force would have to be discussed. If it is then the opponents don't seem to be damaged and the only question is whether South should have investigated a slam and failed to do so because of the UI. If he shouldn't then there is no breach of either Law 16 or 73C.

  • Both players have UI: one from the explanation, one from the wince.

    The wince suggests bidding, so we need to see if Pass of 2D is a logical alternative.

    As far as openers rebid goes: when I played strong twos. 2M - Pass or 2S or 2NT was negative, -3M was a slam try, -4M was a minimum positive. I don't remember what responses to a strong 2D were, but playing 3D as stronger than 4D is not clear. Are there any one else who plays to 2D strong who could be polled. Even if passing 3D is not a logical alternative, bids other than 5D (which smacks of unauthorised panic) might end up missing game or bidding slam.

  • edited February 5

    The bit I'm struggling with is that without the announcement/wince, the bidding could easily go 2D (weak)/pass ...
    Amongst the cohort of players a weak raise to a weak 2 isn't assured.

    North has something like: S xx / H Qxxx / D xxxxx / C AQ
    South has something like: S AKQx / H AJ / D AKQxx / C xx

  • @Mark_Brown said:
    The bit I'm struggling with is that without the announcement/wince, the bidding could easily go 2D (weak)/pass ...
    Amongst the cohort of players a weak raise to a weak 2 isn't assured.

    North has something like: S xx / H Qxxx / D xxxxx / C AQ
    South has something like: S AKQx / H AJ / D AKQxx / C xx

    Well the answer is to poll players of the appropriate class. Give them the North hand and ask what they do opposite a weak 2D. If indeed some do pass, then you can adjust to 2D, assuming the opponents wouldn't come in. Let's not forget that both players are subject to UI - North from South's wince, South from North's announcement.

  • With that North hand I would always raise a weak 2D to 5D. I wouldn't think of passing.

    Alan

  • TagTag
    edited February 5

    Surely everyone else is in 3NT, giving this pair close to a bottom, so ... no damage and you now need only think about whether a penalty is appropriate.

    Then again, some might be going off in 6.

  • Just to round this out.
    The poll (of "no fear" level players) gave a mix of Pass, 4D, 5D.
    Most other tables in 5D/5D+1/5D+2.
    Double Dummy claims 7D or 5/6NT but that needs the right finesses.

    So my decision was North used UI in their bid, reset to 2D+something, a bottom.

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