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Undo in online (BBO)

Interesting on undo protocol, in a couple of games i have played and undo was requested late (ie after two further bids) in both cases the director insisted defence allowed the undo - as it was a friendly game with people getting used to playing online. In one case the bidding went 1c (1d by my partner) 1h pass pass - at that moment the 1h bidder requested an undo - ie after his partner had passed out his 1h bid. We declined on the basis that the bid was sanctioned by me and opp. Director said we must allow the undo - which we did of course - and bidder substituted 2d alerted as showing both majors. I did not feel this was correct.

Comments

  • edited April 2020

    @00209905 said:
    Interesting on undo protocol, in a couple of games i have played and undo was requested late (ie after two further bids) in both cases the director insisted defence allowed the undo - as it was a friendly game with people getting used to playing online. In one case the bidding went 1c (1d by my partner) 1h pass pass - at that moment the 1h bidder requested an undo - ie after his partner had passed out his 1h bid. We declined on the basis that the bid was sanctioned by me and opp. Director said we must allow the undo - which we did of course - and bidder substituted 2d alerted as showing both majors. I did not feel this was correct.

    For the EBU Online Knockout and the Lockdown League, undos are allowed only during the auction and only for calls that are unintended within the meaning of Law 25A.

    So they wouldn't be allowed once the player's partner has called and they wouldn't be allowed for changes of mind or confusions of the mind, only for mis-clicks. They may however still be allowed even if the player's partner draws attention to it, although with self-alerting this will happen less than in face-to-face bridge.

  • @gordonrainsford said:

    @00209905 said:
    Interesting on undo protocol, in a couple of games i have played and undo was requested late (ie after two further bids) in both cases the director insisted defence allowed the undo - as it was a friendly game with people getting used to playing online. In one case the bidding went 1c (1d by my partner) 1h pass pass - at that moment the 1h bidder requested an undo - ie after his partner had passed out his 1h bid. We declined on the basis that the bid was sanctioned by me and opp. Director said we must allow the undo - which we did of course - and bidder substituted 2d alerted as showing both majors. I did not feel this was correct.

    For the EBU Online Knockout and the Lockdown League, undos are allowed only during the auction and only for calls that are unintended within the meaning of Law 25A.

    So they wouldn't be allowed once the player's partner has called and they wouldn't be allowed for changes of mind or confusions of the mind, only for mis-clicks. They may however still be allowed even if the player's partner draws attention to it, although with self-alerting this will happen less than in face-to-face bridge.

    I find in the few games I've played on EBU BBO that I've often clicked the wrong card - there doesn't appear to be any way of retracting that mistake,

  • You can change your settings so that you need to double click each card. That dramatically reduces the incidence of misclicks. But you are correct that there are no undos in the EBU games.
  • @00209905 said:
    at that moment the 1h bidder requested an undo - ie after his partner had passed out his 1h bid.

    Even though it sounds like they changed their mind afterwards, it seems fair to be reasonably forgiving in a friendly game whilst people are getting used to online play. We should bear in mind that some people will be slower than others to hunt down, find and click the Undo button - especially under the pressure of a live auction.

  • I agree with this, although I would have thought it more likely that the passer of 1H wanted to undo than the 1H bidder.

  • @AlanB said:

    I find in the few games I've played on EBU BBO that I've often clicked the wrong card - there doesn't appear to be any way of retracting that mistake,

    While there is no automatic Undo, if you click on the little blue box with the three horizontal white lines you get an option of asking the opponents if they will let you change your card. (I forget the exact wording it uses).
    I had recourse to this recently when the program unilaterally decided to rearrange my hand just at the moment when I clicked on my opening lead, resulting in my leading the wrong suit. Declarer declined to let me change my lead although I explained the position, as by that time I had seen the dummy (which I could hardly avoid as it's displayed the instant the opening lead hits the table). As a result the contract, doubled by me, made when on my intended lead it goes two down.
    Such is life.

  • @mikeindex said:

    @AlanB said:

    I find in the few games I've played on EBU BBO that I've often clicked the wrong card - there doesn't appear to be any way of retracting that mistake,

    While there is no automatic Undo, if you click on the little blue box with the three horizontal white lines you get an option of asking the opponents if they will let you change your card. (I forget the exact wording it uses).

    The exact wording is "Undo" - as per this discussion.
    Gordon's answer says that EBU tournaments don't have this Undo option during the play.

    I had recourse to this recently when the program unilaterally decided to rearrange my hand just at the moment when I clicked on my opening lead, resulting in my leading the wrong suit

    BBO rearranges your hand to put trumps on your left when the auction ends - don't rush the opening lead!

  • edited April 2020

    @UsuallyDummy said:

    The exact wording is "Undo" - as per this discussion.
    Gordon's answer says that EBU tournaments don't have this Undo option during the play.

    The earlier discussion referred to the bidding rather than the play.
    I pointed out that there is an Undo option of sorts available during play but it requires the opponents' consent.

    BBO rearranges your hand to put trumps on your left when the auction ends - don't rush the opening lead!

    I realise that now - obviously, I didn't at the time.

  • You can try displaying hands as a hand diagram - does not get rearranged for the play.

    You can also try bids or plays require confirmations options, its more click but fewer misclicks.

  • As Robin says, basically you either have to live with the fact that you might misclick, or live with having to both select, and then confirm, every card you play and every bid you make.

    I use the hand diagram and to be honest I've never misclicked either bids or plays. Much tougher if you play on your phone when everything is so small.

  • I find that using 'confirm bids' option allows me to select the call, the add the alert announcement and then OK - and avoid misclicks.

    The 'confirm plays' is less successful. Slow responses from the system and 'shonkey' mouse clicks mean I can still play two cards in succession - this happens if I am fourth to play and win the trick and find I have returned the suit. This is particularly ineffective if the suit was the suit the opponents were setting up in NT.

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